Cleveland VS Windsor heads

[Rayatswan]

Any wonder its tuff to get a Boss 302 style engine to fit into the narrow engine bay on a 65 66 Mustang

[boofhead]

In your case, going 351W base is 1 inch wider then adding in the Cleveland heads is at least another inch. Then you have to get big pipes in there... it is a challenge but easy if your using a Mustang II type of front end so the shock towers are removed.

[StephenSLR]

Any wonder its tuff to get a Boss 302 style engine to fit into the narrow engine bay on a 65 66 Mustang

It shouldn't be, I have a 302 Clevor in mine:



More info on the car and a video posted in this link if you want to hear it running:

http://www.mustangtech.com.au/Forums/vi ... =3224.html

s

[boofhead]

A 351W Clevor is wider again. Fit yes but very tight.

[StephenSLR]

You may have issues when it comes to extractors. Off the shelf 302 Clevor extractors have to be imported, they require adjustable motor mounts to fit and you have to cut into the shock towers. You could also get them custom made but that's not cheap.

I have the stock manifolds and they fit fine.

s

[boofhead]

Yes - so the OP is building a 400+CID Clevor so he will need 1 7/8 headers plus 3 inch dual exhaust plus the engine is 1 inch wider than yours (which is very nice BTW). So for any practical purpose the shock towers really need to be gone.

[StephenSLR]

In the OP he states 'Boss 302 style engine' I assume he is talking about a 302 with 351 2V Cleveland heads.

I did a bit of research and the 351 2V Cleveland heads were a common mod for 302 engines in the 70's but along with that comes clearance issues if you want extractors, etc.

These days with the technological advances we've had, many recommend using modern 302 Aluminium heads, they have much better flow than the old 2V Clevelands, reduced weight and you can use standard 302 extractors. I guess if you already have spare 2V Cleveland heads sitting around you may as well put them to use.

s

[Shaunp]

Yes - so the OP is building a 400+CID Clevor so he will need 1 7/8 headers plus 3 inch dual exhaust plus the engine is 1 inch wider than yours (which is very nice BTW). So for any practical purpose the shock towers really need to be gone.

Yep it will need some big pipes, it potentially a 700- 800 hp engine, and they will hard to fit in with towers, hence my original suggestion to go with a M2 type front end.

[Rayatswan]

Hey guys, I only posted those pictures to compare head sizes, I definitely wont be using that block, too weak.
Still looking at suspension options as well.... Ray

[boofhead]

In the OP he states 'Boss 302 style engine' I assume he is talking about a 302 with 351 2V Cleveland heads.

I did a bit of research and the 351 2V Cleveland heads were a common mod for 302 engines in the 70's but along with that comes clearance issues if you want extractors, etc.

These days with the technological advances we've had, many recommend using modern 302 Aluminium heads, they have much better flow than the old 2V Clevelands, reduced weight and you can use standard 302 extractors. I guess if you already have spare 2V Cleveland heads sitting around you may as well put them to use.

s

In another thread the OP has stated he has CHI 3V 238cc heads plus intended to build a Dart based engine over 400 cid. I would assume he means a 438 minimum (since that is what I would aim for ) though could be a 427 I guess. So it is a 351W base.

You are right there is little point on a 302 to build a Clevor engine unless you just want to (which is a good reason). It is true that most decent after market heads flow better than the old stock iron 2V Cleveland heads ( even an AFR 165 flow more air).

In the case of building a big stroker such as discussed then a Cleveland based after market head really is a good choice. Windsor style heads are harder to get in the sizes needed. You really need to go to the High port offerings (such as a TFS HP) or the larger Cleveland style (such as the CHI) to get the port sizes needed to support the required flow.

[Shaunp]

The CHI heads are best when ported correctly they can flow big numbers then and make unwieldy HP numbers on pump fuel and a single carb, other wise TFS & AFR often out flow them out of the box A 220 AFR outflows a 225 CHI 3v for example and like wise a 195 outflows a 208 CHi. You have to make sure you know what you are buying, the basic CHI casting is full of potential, for big numbers but it will cost $4k-5k to make them very good.