will you still be ready for the drags on 27th???
Jacko has said he will come up with me and i think my sons keen also.
who else was thinking of bringing their car??
Jbb
Water injection
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Water injection
I hope so. Maybe not with new pulley etc though.
Re: Water injection
Got a bit more done tonight.
My tank arrived, so I used the existing grommet in the middle that normally takes the washer pump and added a fitting to it.
I mounted the tank so the fitting lined up pretty well with the inlet to the pump.
I drilled a second hole and added another fitting for the windscreen washer.
I also ran the high pressure side from the pump to the nozzle. At some point I will have to work out a filter for it I think.
Some just use the built-in one in the nozzle. I had planned to put one on the low pressure side between the pump and tank, but there wasn't enough room as you can see in the pic above. So if I can find one that will work with the push fit fittings and handle the pressure I will try and fit one at some stage.
I couldn't finish the wiring tonight because I can't find my crimp connectors for my relay blocks. I blame Cage because we used them last on Brandy.
I'm going to run 12V to the relay via the fuel pump relay so there is only power to it while the engine is running.
The hobbs switch will switch the negative side of the relay.
Edit: I will also scrub that horrible polished alloy and paint the tank black over the weekend.
My tank arrived, so I used the existing grommet in the middle that normally takes the washer pump and added a fitting to it.
I mounted the tank so the fitting lined up pretty well with the inlet to the pump.
I drilled a second hole and added another fitting for the windscreen washer.
I also ran the high pressure side from the pump to the nozzle. At some point I will have to work out a filter for it I think.
Some just use the built-in one in the nozzle. I had planned to put one on the low pressure side between the pump and tank, but there wasn't enough room as you can see in the pic above. So if I can find one that will work with the push fit fittings and handle the pressure I will try and fit one at some stage.
I couldn't finish the wiring tonight because I can't find my crimp connectors for my relay blocks. I blame Cage because we used them last on Brandy.
I'm going to run 12V to the relay via the fuel pump relay so there is only power to it while the engine is running.
The hobbs switch will switch the negative side of the relay.
Edit: I will also scrub that horrible polished alloy and paint the tank black over the weekend.
Last edited by hybrid on Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Water injection
Polished alloy
"The simple answer is, even if I have decided I still don't know what to do."
Re: Water injection
All this prep will be great for your new SHP dart block with Forged pistons I reckon
Re: Water injection
Actually this should save the pistons. The block... who knows.Shaunp wrote:All this prep will be great for your new SHP dart block with Forged pistons I reckon
It's pretty much ready for a test run now.
I might take it for a run tomorrow with just distilled water in the tank just to make sure it all works. I've put the feelers out for a source of methanol that isn't too difficult.
If I can't find one, I might buy some snow boost juice for now (track) and then test with Methylated Spirits later. Which ever way I go, I want to make it easy to source the potion so it's not a pain in the ass.
If I'm lucky, the pulley will arrive in time for next weekend.
It looks like the solenoid is not going to make it by next weekend thanks to an idiot I have been dealing with (no not me, another idiot). I don't like the thought of running without it, so I might try blackwoods or something during the week.
I painted the tank as promised. Looks heaps better.
And here's a video of me testing the setup with my spare nozzle.
Re: Water injection
That works real well. Good spray pattern.
I do wounder how much heat the water will absorb in the tank and how this might affect the result.
Good stuff.
I do wounder how much heat the water will absorb in the tank and how this might affect the result.
Good stuff.
I will someday think of something clever to say.
Re: Water injection
She's a good squirter, that's for sure.
Re: Water injection
RS components also do one if you get stuck. 840-7020.
I have a feeling that their 1/8 port may be BSP though.
I have a feeling that their 1/8 port may be BSP though.
Re: Water injection
Whitey's Workshop in merrylands is well known source of methanol. He used to charge $1.30 a litre or something like that a while ago, might have gone up now.hybrid wrote:I've put the feelers out for a source of methanol that isn't too difficult.
If I can't find one, I might buy some snow boost juice for now (track) and then test with Methylated Spirits later. Which ever way I go, I want to make it easy to source the potion so it's not a pain in the ass.
Whitey's Workshop - 9897 3148
There is a place near eastern creek that stocks the powerplus products, a bit more expensive though.
Re: Water injection
I have thought about that - and considered putting ice in the tank for the track.boofhead wrote:That works real well. Good spray pattern.
I do wounder how much heat the water will absorb in the tank and how this might affect the result.
Good stuff.
But by all accounts, the difference temp of the water hardly rates a mention compared to the heat exchanged during the process of the water changing state (from liquid to gas).
I'm going to take it for a test drive today hopefully, and I will do a log. It will be good to see the difference adding 50% alcohol later will make anyway.
I did see that one. BSP is not an issue because they are close enough to work. It's only a few TPI difference I think.nassi wrote: RS components also do one if you get stuck. 840-7020.
I have a feeling that their 1/8 port may be BSP though.
But.. the other thing I noticed when I found that one was the backorder and dispatch date
I have found some 1/4" to 6mm push fit fittings, so I've ordered some of those to be sent express post. So hopefully should have them by mid week.
Awesome thanks mate. Merrylands isn't too bad for a once in a while trip. I could buy 20L or something which would last me for ages.Husky65 wrote: Whitey's Workshop in merrylands is well known source of methanol. He used to charge $1.30 a litre or something like that a while ago, might have gone up now.
Whitey's Workshop - 9897 3148
There is a place near eastern creek that stocks the powerplus products, a bit more expensive though.
Dad said when he raced dirt track, they used to go to the shell refinery in Rose Hill to get their methanol. They had a service station there, but he's not sure if it still exists, or if they still sell it.
Re: Water injection
I think you will find that NPT and BSP are the same TPI, but the angle of the thread changes. You are right though, either work.
Re: Water injection
Yeah that sounds about right Nassi.
So I just took it for a drive and it was quite the mixed bag.
First run when I got it on boost, all seemed well. I pulled over to check under the bonnet for leaks since I also had the radiator out to do this job.
Turns out I blew the water injection line out of the nozzle fitting - mustn't have checked it properly after I tested the spare nozzle last night. So I put that back in and tested it (grabbed the fitting this time) - all good. Of course it pumped out a fair bit of water when that happened, so I didn't have much left.
Took off again and got it on boost again (mind you this isn't that easy in a loud fast car if you want it on boost for a while). All seemed good.
Checked under the bonnet - hose stayed on this time. Had a quick check of my logs - intake air temp didn't budge. WTF?
Found that I had forgot to plug the air temp sensor back in
Check water level again... it's too low.
So I drive home and fill the tank completely.
This time I decide to hit the motorway so I can put my foot down in third and keep some boost for a while. All good again. EXCEPT!
On light throttle and higher RPM it was breaking up. Put the foot down further and it's good.
I'm going to put this down to the venturi effect past the nozzle sucking some water in - because I don't have the solenoid installed yet. Enough water is being sucked in to affect the fuel/spark.
It is going through a LOT of water - probably 500ml per decent pull. But again, I'm reserving judgement on that until the solenoid is installed to make sure it's not using water when the pump isn't running.
Now the good news. In short, it's plain to see that using just water WORKS.
If you want to just check the log yourself, you can use the link below, but I will include screenshots of the important bits because there is a lot of me stopping to check under the bonnet after a blast.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7qtgxvwi3ri9 ... l.zip?dl=0
Here's a screenshot clearly showing air temp (MAT/Red) dropping after 3psi of boost when the hobbs switch engages.
AFR is not affected at all.
Intake temp dropped from 46 down to about 38, where without the injection, on boost it would climb into the 50's or 60's.
On some other pulls, the temps started at around 38 and stayed there during boost. I think the thick alloy supercharger hat holds the cold temps for a while.
Especially considering ambient is probably around 20 or so today.
So I'm happy in the end - it was nerve racking considering the risks if you get it wrong (hyrdo locking etc).
I definitely need to get the solenoid in and test the high rpm/low throttle scenario and also see if it uses less water.
As much as I hate wiring, I'm also going to put a light in the dash that come on with the hobbs engages. It's no guarantee that anything is being injected, but at least I know it's engaged. The other option is a pressure switch on the water line that engages a light. Again no guarantee, but at least you know there's water pressure.
So I just took it for a drive and it was quite the mixed bag.
First run when I got it on boost, all seemed well. I pulled over to check under the bonnet for leaks since I also had the radiator out to do this job.
Turns out I blew the water injection line out of the nozzle fitting - mustn't have checked it properly after I tested the spare nozzle last night. So I put that back in and tested it (grabbed the fitting this time) - all good. Of course it pumped out a fair bit of water when that happened, so I didn't have much left.
Took off again and got it on boost again (mind you this isn't that easy in a loud fast car if you want it on boost for a while). All seemed good.
Checked under the bonnet - hose stayed on this time. Had a quick check of my logs - intake air temp didn't budge. WTF?
Found that I had forgot to plug the air temp sensor back in
Check water level again... it's too low.
So I drive home and fill the tank completely.
This time I decide to hit the motorway so I can put my foot down in third and keep some boost for a while. All good again. EXCEPT!
On light throttle and higher RPM it was breaking up. Put the foot down further and it's good.
I'm going to put this down to the venturi effect past the nozzle sucking some water in - because I don't have the solenoid installed yet. Enough water is being sucked in to affect the fuel/spark.
It is going through a LOT of water - probably 500ml per decent pull. But again, I'm reserving judgement on that until the solenoid is installed to make sure it's not using water when the pump isn't running.
Now the good news. In short, it's plain to see that using just water WORKS.
If you want to just check the log yourself, you can use the link below, but I will include screenshots of the important bits because there is a lot of me stopping to check under the bonnet after a blast.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7qtgxvwi3ri9 ... l.zip?dl=0
Here's a screenshot clearly showing air temp (MAT/Red) dropping after 3psi of boost when the hobbs switch engages.
AFR is not affected at all.
Intake temp dropped from 46 down to about 38, where without the injection, on boost it would climb into the 50's or 60's.
On some other pulls, the temps started at around 38 and stayed there during boost. I think the thick alloy supercharger hat holds the cold temps for a while.
Especially considering ambient is probably around 20 or so today.
So I'm happy in the end - it was nerve racking considering the risks if you get it wrong (hyrdo locking etc).
I definitely need to get the solenoid in and test the high rpm/low throttle scenario and also see if it uses less water.
As much as I hate wiring, I'm also going to put a light in the dash that come on with the hobbs engages. It's no guarantee that anything is being injected, but at least I know it's engaged. The other option is a pressure switch on the water line that engages a light. Again no guarantee, but at least you know there's water pressure.
Last edited by hybrid on Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Water injection
Good work - would not want it to go perfectly at first as it is no fun that way.
Good result on temp drop.
How much spray does it take to affect the burn negatively - maybe a variable spray boost referenced would be better. PWM run the pump?
Good result on temp drop.
How much spray does it take to affect the burn negatively - maybe a variable spray boost referenced would be better. PWM run the pump?
Last edited by boofhead on Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
I will someday think of something clever to say.
Re: Water injection
Yes, most of the aftermarket kits are progressive.
Under load I don't know how much it takes to affect it. Under light throttle it doesn't seem like a lot, but that's not surprising when you don't have much fuel or air going in either.
I'm not going to bother with variable right now. If this lets me safely run whatever boost the 3" pulley will give me, that will do me for the foreseeable future. The other simple standalone option is a smaller nozzle that kicks in earlier, then a second one that comes in under higher boost.
The only time I really hit boost is when I'm giving it a boot full. And in all of those circumstances today, it didn't miss a beat. It was only at 1/4 throttle on the motorway at 3000rpm that it was misfiring, and the hobbs switch should not have been activated then. So I'm almost certain it's because of the missing solenoid, but time will tell.
The kit that my uncle is giving me is a variable setup, but I'm not sure if his pump will handle pushing against boost. It may be designed to spray before the supercharger (he was using it N/A), but I'm really not comfortable with that. It's not worth risking damaging the impeller.
Under load I don't know how much it takes to affect it. Under light throttle it doesn't seem like a lot, but that's not surprising when you don't have much fuel or air going in either.
I'm not going to bother with variable right now. If this lets me safely run whatever boost the 3" pulley will give me, that will do me for the foreseeable future. The other simple standalone option is a smaller nozzle that kicks in earlier, then a second one that comes in under higher boost.
The only time I really hit boost is when I'm giving it a boot full. And in all of those circumstances today, it didn't miss a beat. It was only at 1/4 throttle on the motorway at 3000rpm that it was misfiring, and the hobbs switch should not have been activated then. So I'm almost certain it's because of the missing solenoid, but time will tell.
The kit that my uncle is giving me is a variable setup, but I'm not sure if his pump will handle pushing against boost. It may be designed to spray before the supercharger (he was using it N/A), but I'm really not comfortable with that. It's not worth risking damaging the impeller.