Husky's 65 Restomod
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Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
No dramas. I'm surprised they didn't supply at minimum nylock nuts, but oh well. At least we know from now on
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
Going to check mine this weekend now.
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
Ok, so for those that care, lets call this Fitting Brembos Part 1.
So ended up receiving the Brembo 4 pistons CTS-V calipers, which are the same as the Holden VE Redline Brembos. Ends up being cheaper to buy a new set from America than buy a clapped out used set here in Aus, typical really. The price some people asked for used parts in shit condition here blows my mind.
Anyway, the UPC kit I have apparently uses VE PBR calipers. The brembo redline calipers bolt straight in to replace the stock VE calipers on the Holdens. So put two and two together, and they should fit mine. The funky to the whole situation was the rotor. So, although the Brembos bolt directly in place of the stock pbr calipers on the VE's, they use a 355mmx 32mm rotor with a 50mm offset, where as the stock rotors are 321x28 with a 52mm offset. That's a difference of 34mm rotor size, and 2 mm offset.
Now, the UPC kit I have comes with the VE calipers, and a custom bracket to suit 298mmx28 rotors with a depth of 65mm, with a centre bore of 71.5. So knowing the brembos require a rotor 34mm larger and 2mm less offset, I found one which was off a Dodge Nitro. 332mm, with a 64mm offset, centre bore of 72. Pretty damn close. Only issue was they are 28mm thick, but I had some 2mm thick pad backings to alleviate that. Only cost 170 for the rotors, so I bought them.
So anyway, the brake kit arrived on Friday and I got to work Friday night test fitting. First of all, the calipers required a different bolt (m12x1.75) than the UPC PBR caliper(which should not be the case if it was a VE caliper). No dramas, I had those bolts lying around . From there the Brembo caliper bolted straight up.
The next thing was that the caliper was too far out board, and the rotor was not centered, but favouring the inside of the caliper by 3mm. No dramas. I took the UPC caliper brackets off, added a high tensile 3mm washer, and bolted it back up. Centered.
On to the next issue. The 332mm rotor is too small. The pad was overhanging by around 10mm, which is obviously not satisfactory by any means. So I need a rotor that is 10mm larger (on both sides as its a circle, so 20mm larger overall). Which means I actually need a 352mm rotor. Why there was such a big difference in my calculations, I don't know. I'b beginning to think that the UPC calipers are not off a Ve, and maybe off another holden. So the initial measurement I did which was based off a VE caliper might be wrong. The bolts should have been the same but they weren't, so who knows. Also, the UPC caliper wasn't exactly a perfect fit for the 298mm rotor, and could have come in a bit further.
Anyway, end of the day to make this tickity boo, I need to replace the 332mm dodge rotor with a 352mm rotor. What do you know, the new Ecoboost mustangs come out with a 352mm x 32mm rotor, with an offset of 64mm. Almost absolutely perfect, except for the fact the centre bore on them is 71mm. My centre bore is 71.5 ish, although when I measured it seemed pretty close to 71mm. So I am going to grab a set and hope there is enough machining tolerance to fit them on. If not, i'll give the hubs a quick sanding and they should be perfect.
So anyway, fitted everything up and bled them as I had a mate around to give me a hand. Once the new rotors come in I'll hopefully straight swap them over and we'll be away!
For those interested, the brembo calipers delivered are just over $600aud. That's a brand new set with pins/shims.
The mustang rotors(if they fit) will be about $300 for good DBA ones. Remsa pads are $50. Lines from the UPC kit bolt straight up. What you need from the UPC kit is the bracket and hub.
Anyway, wait out for part 2.
So ended up receiving the Brembo 4 pistons CTS-V calipers, which are the same as the Holden VE Redline Brembos. Ends up being cheaper to buy a new set from America than buy a clapped out used set here in Aus, typical really. The price some people asked for used parts in shit condition here blows my mind.
Anyway, the UPC kit I have apparently uses VE PBR calipers. The brembo redline calipers bolt straight in to replace the stock VE calipers on the Holdens. So put two and two together, and they should fit mine. The funky to the whole situation was the rotor. So, although the Brembos bolt directly in place of the stock pbr calipers on the VE's, they use a 355mmx 32mm rotor with a 50mm offset, where as the stock rotors are 321x28 with a 52mm offset. That's a difference of 34mm rotor size, and 2 mm offset.
Now, the UPC kit I have comes with the VE calipers, and a custom bracket to suit 298mmx28 rotors with a depth of 65mm, with a centre bore of 71.5. So knowing the brembos require a rotor 34mm larger and 2mm less offset, I found one which was off a Dodge Nitro. 332mm, with a 64mm offset, centre bore of 72. Pretty damn close. Only issue was they are 28mm thick, but I had some 2mm thick pad backings to alleviate that. Only cost 170 for the rotors, so I bought them.
So anyway, the brake kit arrived on Friday and I got to work Friday night test fitting. First of all, the calipers required a different bolt (m12x1.75) than the UPC PBR caliper(which should not be the case if it was a VE caliper). No dramas, I had those bolts lying around . From there the Brembo caliper bolted straight up.
The next thing was that the caliper was too far out board, and the rotor was not centered, but favouring the inside of the caliper by 3mm. No dramas. I took the UPC caliper brackets off, added a high tensile 3mm washer, and bolted it back up. Centered.
On to the next issue. The 332mm rotor is too small. The pad was overhanging by around 10mm, which is obviously not satisfactory by any means. So I need a rotor that is 10mm larger (on both sides as its a circle, so 20mm larger overall). Which means I actually need a 352mm rotor. Why there was such a big difference in my calculations, I don't know. I'b beginning to think that the UPC calipers are not off a Ve, and maybe off another holden. So the initial measurement I did which was based off a VE caliper might be wrong. The bolts should have been the same but they weren't, so who knows. Also, the UPC caliper wasn't exactly a perfect fit for the 298mm rotor, and could have come in a bit further.
Anyway, end of the day to make this tickity boo, I need to replace the 332mm dodge rotor with a 352mm rotor. What do you know, the new Ecoboost mustangs come out with a 352mm x 32mm rotor, with an offset of 64mm. Almost absolutely perfect, except for the fact the centre bore on them is 71mm. My centre bore is 71.5 ish, although when I measured it seemed pretty close to 71mm. So I am going to grab a set and hope there is enough machining tolerance to fit them on. If not, i'll give the hubs a quick sanding and they should be perfect.
So anyway, fitted everything up and bled them as I had a mate around to give me a hand. Once the new rotors come in I'll hopefully straight swap them over and we'll be away!
For those interested, the brembo calipers delivered are just over $600aud. That's a brand new set with pins/shims.
The mustang rotors(if they fit) will be about $300 for good DBA ones. Remsa pads are $50. Lines from the UPC kit bolt straight up. What you need from the UPC kit is the bracket and hub.
Anyway, wait out for part 2.
Last edited by Husky65 on Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:41 am, edited 6 times in total.
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
Good work mate. I was almost going to do the cts-v upgrade to my vy ss commodore .. gathered parts then sold car. This would be a step up again from my 13 2" street or track 2 pots (pbr).
I would recommend getting a machine shop to clearance bore so you can ensure concentricity of disc to hub.
Trav
I would recommend getting a machine shop to clearance bore so you can ensure concentricity of disc to hub.
Trav
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
Yeah that's a good point. So, the 71.5mm falcon rotor which the UPC kit comes with is loose on the hub, not falling off loose, but not oem tight, so I don't think it's a good fit to start with. I am hoping that there is .5mm give in both the sizing of the rotor hub and the centre bore size. Quick measurement of the hub gave me 71ish mm, so we will see.
The other rotor that would work would be the 355mm falcon rotor, however it's offset is 50.5mm. It's centre bore is 71.8, so .3mm larger. But I would have to get the UPC brackets machined down 10.5mm due to the low offset. Which isn't a problem, but it just means I wouldn't really be able to go back to the PBR calipers easily if need be.
The other thing I didn't mention is that the calipers normally sit on the firewall side of the rotor on the GM's. The UPC brackets put it forward of the rotor on our mustangs. Because the calipers has a large and small piston, the small pistons should be seeing the disc first. So you need to change the crossover and the bleeders with each other, allowing you to 180 the calipers. All that it means is that the brake line will now be towards the top the caliper instead of towards the bottom.
The other rotor that would work would be the 355mm falcon rotor, however it's offset is 50.5mm. It's centre bore is 71.8, so .3mm larger. But I would have to get the UPC brackets machined down 10.5mm due to the low offset. Which isn't a problem, but it just means I wouldn't really be able to go back to the PBR calipers easily if need be.
The other thing I didn't mention is that the calipers normally sit on the firewall side of the rotor on the GM's. The UPC brackets put it forward of the rotor on our mustangs. Because the calipers has a large and small piston, the small pistons should be seeing the disc first. So you need to change the crossover and the bleeders with each other, allowing you to 180 the calipers. All that it means is that the brake line will now be towards the top the caliper instead of towards the bottom.
Last edited by Husky65 on Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:30 am, edited 5 times in total.
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
Depeding on what disc you end up with you could use a hub centric ring or reducing bushes over studs to locate too as otger possible options
Also make sure you use equivalent property class bolt ( or grade for the imperial crew). I would suspect a 10.9 or 12.9 in this application .
Have daydreamed of modelling up the brackets for this conversion and getting work cnc machinist to smash out a set or two.
Trav.
Also make sure you use equivalent property class bolt ( or grade for the imperial crew). I would suspect a 10.9 or 12.9 in this application .
Have daydreamed of modelling up the brackets for this conversion and getting work cnc machinist to smash out a set or two.
Trav.
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
Also, does UPC bracket use all four mounting holes to stub axle/spindle?
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
So I just did some research, and the hub of the BA-FG Falcon is 70.5mm. They have discs however for them that vary from 70.5 all the way to 71.8. So I don't think the tolerance is that crucial. I guess that small 1-1.3mm tolerance is acceptable to locate the wheels for tightening.
I am contemplating going the 355mm rotors, and milling the brackets down 10mm. That would mean I don't have to use any 3mm spacers, apart from maybe a a small washer to ensure the caliper is true to the rotor. But then again, that means I can't use my PBR calipers if i decide to go back to smaller wheels or something.
And yeah all my bolts are 10.9
I am contemplating going the 355mm rotors, and milling the brackets down 10mm. That would mean I don't have to use any 3mm spacers, apart from maybe a a small washer to ensure the caliper is true to the rotor. But then again, that means I can't use my PBR calipers if i decide to go back to smaller wheels or something.
And yeah all my bolts are 10.9
Last edited by Husky65 on Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
No just two.trav68 wrote:Also, does UPC bracket use all four mounting holes to stub axle/spindle?
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
That's them there. The extended bolt holes bolt to the inside of the spindle. By milling them down I can move the caliper outboard
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
Thats different to my UPC kit, but I have falcon axles some they mount on the side of the vertical not the face.
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
Yeah I saw those. They look quite different to mine.Shaunp wrote:Thats different to my UPC kit, but I have falcon axles some they mount on the side of the vertical not the face.
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
Size of bolts to spindle ? Less than M12 or / 1/2"?
From engineering standpoint you only have 2 of 4 bolts ( compared with OEM drum brake design) plus much larger reaction forces due to new caliper and more so larger disc radius (leverage arm).
Personally I would like to see all 4 spindle bolts picked up so the weak leak ( so to speak) is the M12 caliper bolt ( and if you use equivalent grade) - you are guaranteed to be safely with the design envelope exc spindle failure.
From engineering standpoint you only have 2 of 4 bolts ( compared with OEM drum brake design) plus much larger reaction forces due to new caliper and more so larger disc radius (leverage arm).
Personally I would like to see all 4 spindle bolts picked up so the weak leak ( so to speak) is the M12 caliper bolt ( and if you use equivalent grade) - you are guaranteed to be safely with the design envelope exc spindle failure.
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
I got a set of the 6 piston EX Trans-am Willwood calipers from Woody , may have to get Lee to mill me up some different mounts.Husky65 wrote:Yeah I saw those. They look quite different to mine.Shaunp wrote:Thats different to my UPC kit, but I have falcon axles some they mount on the side of the vertical not the face.
Re: Husky's 65 Restomod
I believe they are 12mm but I would have to check. The stock spindle holes had to be drilled out to accept them.trav68 wrote:Size of bolts to spindle ? Less than M12 or / 1/2"?
From engineering standpoint you only have 2 of 4 bolts ( compared with OEM drum brake design) plus much larger reaction forces due to new caliper and more so larger disc radius (leverage arm).
Personally I would like to see all 4 spindle bolts picked up so the weak leak ( so to speak) is the M12 caliper bolt ( and if you use equivalent grade) - you are guaranteed to be safely with the design envelope exc spindle failure.
I know what your saying. I guess that's how UPC does there kit and I didn't think anything of it when I bought it many moons ago.
Last edited by Husky65 on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.